kate bishop (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
fledges) wrote in ![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png)
meadowlark2019-02-23 02:26 pm
fledges) wrote in meadowlark2019-02-23 02:26 pm
@kate.bishop
hey guys. clarke and i have been trying to figure out more about the una soldiers. where they come from, who recruits them, that sort of thing.
so, a couple of things. it seems like most of recruits are young. 16 at the youngest, and never any older than mid twenties. a lot of them are also poor. the una apparently focuses their recruitment efforts on lower income parts of the city, trying to rope in kids who might not have much of a family or a place to live. clarke also found out that a lot of the kids were the kind whose families were given retroactive approval for a pregnancy, or whose families had serious issues with addiction or illness.
i've been working at a coffee shop, and as you can probably guess, our clientele is very rich. as you can also probably guess, most of our customers don't seem to know of anyone who was recruited by the una, unless those recruits did really, really well and rocketed up in social status. so, super predatory and super gross. most of those kids probably felt like they didn't have any other choice. i don't know where that leaves any of us, but i think it's important to keep in mind.
so, a couple of things. it seems like most of recruits are young. 16 at the youngest, and never any older than mid twenties. a lot of them are also poor. the una apparently focuses their recruitment efforts on lower income parts of the city, trying to rope in kids who might not have much of a family or a place to live. clarke also found out that a lot of the kids were the kind whose families were given retroactive approval for a pregnancy, or whose families had serious issues with addiction or illness.
i've been working at a coffee shop, and as you can probably guess, our clientele is very rich. as you can also probably guess, most of our customers don't seem to know of anyone who was recruited by the una, unless those recruits did really, really well and rocketed up in social status. so, super predatory and super gross. most of those kids probably felt like they didn't have any other choice. i don't know where that leaves any of us, but i think it's important to keep in mind.
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he skims the post. tracks with what they knew about recruitment beforehand, and how Morningstar describes the way the lower classes were led into the colonies under false pretenses. on brand for this world, so to speak. still unsettling information. ]
Sorry, been a bit of a mare today. Wouldn't believe how many twats are speeding round in their hovercars.
That's a little jury duty banter for you, by the by.
[ thank god brain texting means he can eat and type v easily, when he's on his way to play robots with his nerd gang. ]
Should I weigh in on investigating the UNA soldiers, or the state of Morningstar's resources and, by proxy, our own?
[ he'll defer to the gals leading this post and line of inquiry. ]
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1. Where do you stand on empathy and these soldiers? For transparency's sake, one of my enemies back home took in men, turned them into cannibals called "reapers," and used them to kidnap people. They could be brought back from the drugs. I doubt this is a matter of drugs.
2. What do you think about finding out what has happened to these soldiers? Do you think we have the means or technology to discern it, especially if it's been some kind of conditioning or mind control? I believe—though I'm sorry if I'm not right about this—that you fell on the side of mind control and programming to be possible. Is there a way to determine if it happened with them without killing them, if point one comes into question?
3. More of a personal question that's come up from these conversations: joining up for life. Do you think that's linked to how protective they are of their resources?
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Even people with the capability to feel empathy can be subject to extreme conditioning and environmental factors that facilitate great acts of cruelty. That doesn't excuse their actions, or mean we won't put a stop to them.
[ Fitz doesn't know if he's thinking of himself or Ward, when he says that. Maybe it's always going to be both from now on, when they're as interchangeable as their terrible actions. ]
2. I fell on the side of it being possible, yes, but I think we'd be better of mixing old and new school approaches rather than looking for a technological solution. If we were able to meet a soldier or even interrogate one, I believe we could learn a great deal. There are those among us with powers suited to truthfinding and others with experience in asking the right questions. [ and breaking the right bones. ] Normally, conditioning and mind control become obvious across an extended interaction. I've dealt with multiple cases of mind control as an agent of SHIELD, with varying levels of subtlety. It's difficult to obscure entirely, when it places parameters on responses and behaviour.
Conditioning is harder to judge and measure, but the same means apply.
3. I imagine so. Even in my time, multiple "benevolent" governments have compulsory periods of service and others have mandatory periods of service following the competition of training. You can't just quit the military, that is. If an organisation invests time into making you the perfect soldier, I can see why they'd refuse to let you use your talents elsewhere.
[ it's not right, but it's not entirely alien to him, either. at HYDRA, once you prove your loyalty, you serve for life. ]
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There were warriors and guards in her world because there was a constant need for it. The guards on the Ark were there to "maintain peace" and "enforce laws," and those laws were absolute. Floating: the punishment of death for any crime (unless someone had friends in high places who wouldn't adhere to that. That was very, very rare). And on the ground—everyone was at war. That was what Lexa did her best to stop. To resolve. To ensure that people could come together and face their common enemy.
But here ...
They could say the UNA is needed because of Morningstar, but if they had the means and resources, they could kill Morningstar like an annoying bug. And maybe they do. It's hard to say.]
Thank you. [Thanks are only proper here. She asked some rather unwieldy questions.]
I've never faced this kind of conditioning before. That's not to say it isn't possible, but the means were out of everyone's reach in my world. That's why the people who turned men into monsters did it via drugs. From what I understand, the way they did it involved training. I guess it would be like Pavlov's conditioning, telling them how to react to get what they want, but I have a feeling it would be on a different level from what you're referring to. Hence: this kind.
So, to a point, I'm wrapping my head around this.
I think I have an idea. It's not easy, but some of the UNA fell in the previous attack. If we can disable how they find a body once it's fallen—and assume that it comes with some means to tell the exact time of death—we may be able to get our observation subject.
[Clarke isn't naive. She knows where this kind of observation goes. She's participated in it. And she's spoken out against it—only to fall back into it later. Mistakes made.]
But if we get someone fallen, there's a chance something will be more fragile when they come to. Maybe.
In the meantime, I'm left wondering why the UN has an army that's this strong. Not because I don't see the point, but because ... for some reason, they sold the world on this.
Is this a money thing, or am I missing something else?
[She's asking if it's a money thing because she doesn't know, because corporate branding, logos, and lobbying are still out of reach for her understanding. And as much as this world is digitized, that kind of stuff didn't come up in her searches. Not that she had tried, exactly. She wouldn't know the right search query.]
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[ Fitz is a mess of stitched-together scraps, stumbling onward, but he'll always make time for his friends. Each of them is a specific arrangement of atoms only possible here, in this multiversal hub, and destined to blink out of this reality — by force or by choice.
So time is the only resource he can offer, scarce as it may be. ]
Your idea's a good one.
We could strip them of external tech, employ a localised scrambler, and all manner of other fixes. There has to be a way to go offline.
[ a beat, then. ]
Money's a factor, certainly. Corporate influences lobbying for power. Corrupt government officials. The UN has always had a peacekeeping force, besides all that. I think it's part of a wider leadership strategy and not an uncommon one, at that. Perhaps you understand this, anyway, as a leader yourself: Fear is an easy way to enforce cooperation. Fear of the dangers beyond their walls and within their ranks.
Have you heard about the Venus Riots? They weren't the reason the UNA was formed, as far as I'm aware, but they're widely used as an example for their necessity. Official records say the people led to the colonies were uncooperative, refusing to terraform and fighting the very governments and corporations that "supported" their grand trip into the final frontier. And they had to be subdued, as a result. Mass civilian casualties. A force built on fear is required to stomp out such rebellion before it starts.
I think the UN had the noose around the world's neck before anyone realised they were being marched to the gallows.
[ he won't get into a morningstar spiel here, but these thoughts are tied up in his belief in them. they're like SHIELD, formed in response to HYDRA's rise; and like the Resistance that Rey serves in a belated defence against the First Order, which was already decimating planets before they rose up.
they have to save the rebellion. ]
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Perhaps more to the point: the people who made men into monsters spread superstitions to keep people week outside of their base. They made them believe that if they took up arms and tried to fight back, they'd be decimated. Now, I know that this was a lie. They used those people as a resource. It's a long story, and not a very humane one. But the point is that they made those people fight with swords and arrows instead of guns, bombs, and explosives. They knew how to keep them down.
I guess I see now. How the Venus Riots could parallel with that, because they built upon a myth with an actual event behind it. Because they had bombed them once from inside their safe space, so they knew that people would fear it happening again.
I don't believe in ruling with fear, but I know it comes down to that sometimes. Sometimes fear is the only motivator. The thing is, not all fear is bad. Sometimes what people fear is a very, very real event, and people need to band together to solve it. On the other hand, it's the abuse of fear that causes problems.
[It's why she hesitated to tell people the truth to motivate them. To bring them together. Clarke knew that's what her father wanted to do, and that it's what people did to save the Ark long enough for them to get to the ground. But time had made her hesitate, worrying that it might be too much. She's seen these things from all angles.]
Do you think it's fair to move forward acknowledging the UNA as a very, very formidable tool for the government and corrupt system of this world? That's what my instincts tell me now. The problem is, I can't just detox this problem and hope for the best. I don't think that's what lies ahead for any of us.
I'm just afraid that if we have to go home, we may need to take apart this world's system to get there.
[Though Clarke will absolutely do it.]
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All the while, Fitz turns over the coin (that Connor gave him) in his hands. It's for particularly stubborn problems, Fitz. She's right that this comes down to mythmaking, crafted with a very real bodycount to bolster it. Fear has a place in this, alongside outrage and loss. Every light needs a shadow.
However, her final statement hits him hardest. He and Carter have been discussing the same idea, staring down glasses of whiskey in her godawful motel room. ]
I do think it's fair.
And that you're right. Our predicament is interwoven with the fabric of this universe.
Rebellion against its systems may be the only way forward.
[ Whether or not it takes them home. Is that even what others want for themselves and each other? Fitz thinks, suddenly, that he'd rather see Clarke open another door and traverse a new world, kinder than her own.
But they have to save this one first. ]
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She'll do all that, but—she's learned, too. Perhaps this is one of the few places and ways she has learned, when her life has necessitated the opposite of change from her so many times.]
I know I've said this before, but we need to know this world better. I've made the mistake of assuming that I can change things on my own, or even with my people at my back. Knowing what's on the other side is important. We have to be careful not to make the mistakes I've made. If it really is up to help this world turn a new page, we have to make sure it's the right page for them.
[Clarke wonders if Fitz will ask about her mistakes, but she decides that it's worth making this statement just the same.]
That doesn't mean we don't do it.
I don't know how to add this ... exactly. But when we got here, there were some of us looking to Morningstar as if we owed them. It's very dangerous to look to people like them as saviors who deserve absolute fealty. But I also believe that I've been hard on them. If we're going to accomplish anything here, it'll be from knowing what they started in the first place.
[It's a difficult point to add, but important all the same. Morningstar didn't have the ability to destroy their world, becuase they lived in it. But what if they did have a choice? What if they had the means to expose the cracks, and lead people forward?
Clarke doesn't know that she thinks any of them are perfect solutions. But it's blatant enough that what is right there won't do.]