meadowlark | @elizabeth.dewitt

Sorcery, mostly.

[ Loki that doesn't help. ]

Ha ha.
Well, I can't say I've studied THAT. Does sorcery draw much on theoretical physics, then?

Mortal science isn't really my thing.
But no, generally not, no matter who tries to equate them as the same.

[ doubt.jpg but she's not going to start picking fights about magic being real. ]

So, different method but similar results?
Assuming sorcery could make the same kind of portal.

Who says it isn't?

What, that it's sorcery at work here?
Because there's technology involved. How can you differentiate magic from science if they function the same way?

Taking a train and an aircraft to the same place still gets you there.
I said they were different, not that they couldn't coexist. They're not a dichotomy.

That seems even more difficult to figure out. There's no way to know where one ends and the other begins.

That's certainly the question of the week, isn't it?

So we have no answers at all. Wonderful.
I'm definitely starting to feel like I should be studying, if this is the question.
If we ever need both, I don't want to have nothing but theory to offer.

I don't know a lot, but I am curious. Where did you see this before?

The city of Columbia, where I lived.
There was pretty advanced science there. The whole city itself took to the skies in 1893, thanks to the suspension of quantum particles.
The "gateways" weren't such a well-documented or public achievement, but... They appeared around the place.

And, well... I could open them myself.
But I really can't explain that! I know the theory of how they exist, but I honestly can't tell you why me.

Oh.

Oh wow. That sounds pretty amazing. And yes, very similar to this.

I don't know why you, but maybe the dimensional gates were somehow linked to multiple dimensions coinciding.

This world has a lot of us from different dimensions and universes here in this one. Maybe our presence is because this world can touch other dimensions, and that same touching allows the teleportation via gateway.

My theory has always been that all alternate realities overlap. There's no way to see them, of course, but they exist simultaneously.
If you punch a hole through the fabric of one universe, you'll find another. I wouldn't have been surprised to see a place like this through one of the tears in the world back home.
That's how I'd explain what brought us all here, anyway. Folding space to make those gates would be pretty easy after that.

Not that this is really useful information... It just bothered me how similar it is to my experiences.

It is interesting.

And it brings a question. Could we figure out how the gates work and work backward to punch a hole back to our original universes, and get everyone home?

My only concern is that it would take a much more advanced knowledge of quantum mechanics. The kind that would take years to achieve.

Also, apparently those gates might be magic or something, I guess. Impossible science I get, but magic is a little beyond me.

Hmm, true.

Maybe we will get someone like that here.

Magic? Isn't magic and science one and the same eventually?

Well, there's always someone saying that magic is just a word for science we don't yet understand.
I would have agreed with that, since I've seen the kinds of things science can achieve.
But the magic-users among us disagree. Same results, different methods.
Which means, if magic is involved somehow, then it can't be understood with science alone.

Hmmm.

You might well be right.

I don't have any real experience in it to say.

That does seem to be the big problem in all this.
I'm starting to feel like I should be studying for the practical application of physics while we're here. From the sounds of things, I have the most theoretical knowledge, and I don't want to be in a situation where it becomes relevant and I'm completely useless in practice.

It would not be a terrible fate, even if it never becomes useful in this instance.

And if it does, well, it could be very important.

[ I see Loki has already dropped the S bomb ]

Those you've come into contact with were generated scientifically?

That's right. The only problem is that I know the metaphysical theory, but not the practical mechanics of how it was actually done.
Although, the tears in Columbia were gateways between alternate realities. Really basic parallel universe theory stuff.
These ones seem more like... folded space, maybe? Still a hole punched through time and space with technology.

"Tears" sounds reassuring.

[ Technologically manifested tears in reality... thanks, science. 🙃 ]

I don't have practice physically moving through alternate realities but travelling across time, space and dimension in one way or another all fell into my daily routine. Sometimes there would be a door. More often than not there wouldn't.

In this case, technology may be less than half the story.

[ she's still uneasy about mentioning her own connection to it all, but... there's never been anyone who might understand what she's talking about, either. ]

They're not usually dangerous. I started calling them that because... well, they look like tears in the world, and I can pull them open wider.
Before you ask, I can't explain how or why me. I really don't know. I studied physics to try and answer that myself.
But I do have a lot of practical experience with it. Pulling things through from the other side of the doorway, mostly.

Is the rest of the story magic? Because I can a floating city or a man shooting fire from his hands when it's scientific, but magic is a little beyond me.

[ There's so much to unpack here. ]

So one day you happened across a tear in the fabric of reality and decided to try and make it bigger? And then to pull things through it.

[ Can he claim he'd have done anything any different? No. But the ins and outs of other people's multiversal origin stories are as wild to hear about as he's sure his own would be to anyone else. Still is to him. The subsequent total suspension of disbelief in every single aspect of his life now and forever really enhances the experience. ]

The rest of the story is probably magic, yes. But that in itself is explicable to degree. I had to study to practice.

[ he hasn't even scolded her and she already feels kind of sheepish. it's never bothered her before. she hasn't even mentioned the most extreme reality-altering she's messed around with. what kind of Disapproving Adult powers are these. ]

Actually, the truth is... probably worse?
I've been able to do it since I was a child. And as a child, I could open tears all of my own.
It was only later that I had to rely on pre-existing tears.
When I was little, I used to open up a doorway and go wherever I wanted. Now I just turn tea into coffee, or... make a window where there wasn't one before.
Or, well. I guess not "now." Not anymore.

Hmm. They seem to be using technology, though, right? Where's the line between magic and science with that?

[ Oh good. ]

And you never collapsed a reality adding a better view of the patio? Impressive.

[ The idea of a child with no real comprehension of the science she's playing with interacting freely with the multiverse, and seemingly nobody at any point thinking to advise her that continuing to do so might be dangerous... at least she took it upon herself to try to learn. Multiverse-manipulating science powers in good hands. ]

Magic can require a vessel. Physical structure doesn't necessarily imply science just as the absence of it didn't make your tears sorcery.

Nothing's been inserted into our chests to make them glow like they do and yet we're all intrinsically linked by whatever isn't there: we feel one another's inner lives, we can share our dreams and our memories, we ourselves seem to be portals to other worlds. Presumably the gates responded to that power. It could be science, could be sorcery, but not being a quantum physicist myself I'm hoping it's the latter.

I don't know about that. The glow, I mean. Just because you can't see it doesn't mean it isn't science.
There were these liquids in Columbia, Vigors. I've seen a man throw electricity, or summon murderous crows, or toss people into the air after drinking one. And that's a concoction made with chemistry.
But I will say that things certainly would be easier if this is sorcery. At least there seem to be plenty of people who understand that.
I wouldn't want to have to spend a decade studying the application of physics to figure all this out.

I'm curious -- I hadn't spoken to anyone who claims to know sorcery before now, so I haven't heard any other perspectives. Is magic different in different worlds? Does it always work the same way?

Precisely. If only we had a few more super scientists and a few less powerless magic-users we might be able to balance the scales and start getting somewhere. A lot of what you've described from your world certainly has strong overlap with this one.

[ He knows all too well the combined might of science and magic in solving problems that grapple with the multiverse. A fuzzy spark of something worse than guilt goes buried down with the rest of it. ]

Even within worlds it can be channeled differently. I'd imagine the number of ways sorcery works surpasses the number of worlds where magic is wielded. Personally, I manipulate energy from across dimensions using learned technique and an open mind.

[ We'll leave the magical monk cult intel for later down the road. ]

If it helps, I used to be a neurosurgeon. I had no intention of believing in magic either.

Ha. Maybe I should start studying.

So even if we could get back the powers people have lost access to, magic here might be completely different to what anyone is used to.
Ugh. That's why I can say I definitely prefer science. The fundamentals don't change, just how far technology has come.

That actually does help, though. Call me close-minded, but it makes it a little easier to hear from someone who's had a more grounded experience.
Although I do have to wonder how one goes from being a neurosurgeon to a sorcerer.

[Riku does his reading before he responds. It feels like a good idea. While he doesn't know what she's talking about in her top level, the rest sounds like it's something he does know quite well.

But without the same terminology.

It reminds him of something Gaby brought up to him once—about overlapping dimensions. A theory that Fitz had proposed, but Riku hadn't liked the guy.

Guess it's time to have a conversation with someone he's not predisposed toward disliking about the exact same topic.]

I don't know the first thing about metaphysics or quantum mechanics, but I know about worlds being linked. I think we should compare notes.

[He's a bit of an expert in it, so it's time to do just that: be an expert.

Without a single lick of science to back him up. (Or real science. But it's real to him. Look, he's gonna do his best.)]

Edited 2020-02-22 21:31 (UTC)

That's the one aspect I can confidently say I have practical experience with, instead of just theories, so I can certainly do that.
What's your experience been like?

I've traveled between worlds.

But here, some of those worlds are the part of this same world.

Typically, knowledge of movement between worlds is a secret. You're not supposed to know about the other worlds. It upsets the order of things.

But obviously, we upset it all on our own. It's important that we talk to each other.

I see... I've always had a much less personal experience with other worlds. It's only ever me, reaching into other realities.
Can I ask how you'd define a "world"?

Less so with metaphysics and quantum mechanics, more so with magical portals. Science has never really covered as well as I think it would like, the weird shit magic is capable of.

It seems like we have a lot of magicians here and not many scientists.
In my experience -- well, in my experience magic doesn't exist, but more importantly, there's no limit to what science is capable of.
The natural state of things can be overcome with human innovation.

I've always been a fan of science and feel like science and magic COULD go well together, given the opportunity. If someone was able to do both, they'd be very dangerous. And cool. Generally the thing is that science usually has an explanation, and magic sometimes just does it. No reason or rhythm.

Edited 2020-03-01 06:58 (UTC)

@elizabeth.dewitt

@loki.odinson

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@stephen.strange

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